Commentary: Griefers and Their Damage

By Bixyl Shuftan

It was last week when the community I made my home in Second Life had to deal with a griefer. This wasn't the run of the mill "rezz annoying particles and run" griefer who've I used to see hit sandboxes and social spots. Apparently in the past he stalked one of my neighbors until he was finally banned and laid low for a time. Then through a female alt, he contacted me about a club "she" was part of the staff of that might deserve a write-up. Then  some days later through another alt asked about possibly DJing at a club I help manage for a friend, saying "she" could help the club have events on two more days during European hours. We accepted. She also talked to the two people who ran the community's largest club, saying she could do Sundays. She was also accepted.

I'd been talking to this person over Second Life, Skype, and Steam for a few weeks. Then things unravled in a matter of hours. Apparently he spooked the one he'd been originally stalking. He then complained about her and a friend of hers breaking the rules to get at her, and told me not to interfere. As this involved the club, I was obligated to at least tell the owner. The person then told me I was being reported to Linden Lab, "Enjoy being banned from Second Life." Having been around a while, I had a good idea what the Lab could potentially ban someone for, and what people were free to do completely. My response to him, "You know, that was almost amusing. Almost." That didn't make him too happy.

He continued to make trouble, cursing and insulting anyone in the community's groups who inquired what was going on. In the end, he was banned from every sim and group. As word spread, this particular account was banned in at least two other communities as well. One possible account over his Skype contacted me later, claiming he'd been hacked. And another account in Second Life IMed me the next day asking to be on each other's lists in Steam, though the name the person gave was suspiciously like the griefer's. Nothing the next day finally.

While many griefers grow out of their path of misdeeds, this one refuses to change his ways. This person has caused enough trouble for others to write pages on the web just for him, including one that hinted he was evidence that science-fiction/fantasy fans are sexually depraved freaks. I won't honor this chronic troublemaker by mentioning his name, though many reading this will figure out who he is.

So what could we have done to avoid all this? In retrospect, if we wanted to remain a friendly and open community, not much. Yes, groups and their sims can put up walls, not allowing anyone they don't know in. But that's a good way to ensure that a place eventually fades away as real life causes people to eventually drop out of Second Life, and eventually there are too few people to sustain the land. Fortunetly, most communities are open. Most people want to be friendly. Most want to give others, including the newbies, a chance. But unfortunetly that means the occasional jerk will see this openess as an invitation to stir up trouble.

There's no doubt the people who created Second Life were brilliant at what they knew. And what they knew was how to create a virtual world. But when it comes to predicting human behavior, they seem to be again and again taken by surprise. The early Linden Lab predicted Second Life would become a land of adult learning, filled with places like the Sci-Lands and language institutes. That people would come in to use virtual reality to indulge in baser desires such as gambling and sexual fantasies took them completely by surprise. While they did include on the terms of service no harassment of others, it seems they didn't quite prepare for things like particle attacks. One live broadcast from Second Life was interrupted when one griefer caused a bunch of flying male organs to fly across the screen.

The infamous "flying penises" interview hurt Second Life as this bad publicity stained it's image to those outside. It's also part of the reason the twitch streaming service doesn't allow users to broadcast from Second Life. But that's just part of the damage griefers can do, especially when unchecked. While many are content to merely harass, there has been at least one occasion in which griefers launched a continuing barage of attacks on a club as part of an extortion scheme. Linden Lab was no help, even allowing the sale of the "sim crashers" on Marketplace. The only thing the club could do was "hunker down" and limit traffic to those not in their group to a tiny area on their land, handing out invitations once people wanting in were cleared. This would go on for weeks until the extortionists finally gave up and moved on, but not without much revenue being lost by the shops on the land due to disrupted traffic.

More commonly, griefers can disrupt the Second Life experience of people by causing people to be on the watch for them. Some sensitive friends of mine have become afraid of being harassed and stalked, and are reluctant to venture outside a few familiar areas they feel safe in. With griefers making use of newcomer alts most of the time, the response has been suspicion by some of anyone new. I've heard of places that won't allow anyone with an account under thirty days in at all. With all the talk about how to attract people to Second Life, it isn't hard to imagine a newcomer getting frustrated from being eyed with suspicion, "The heck with this, I'll just head on to World of Warcraft!"

Linden Lab could make it a requirement for one to provide real-life information when making an account. But with hackers in the news time to time, such as when some published a list of those using a website for affairs, if you're someone worried about an identity thief cleaning out your account or a woman scarred to death about the thought of a stalker, this option is not one that lets you rest well at night.

A few days before the griefer was thrown out, someone new to Second Life dropped in our community. After the mess, At least one wondered if this was a coincidence. But I had talked for some time with the newcomer, and didn't get the "feel" I had with the troublemaker. So she was left alone, and as time went on, there was no trouble from her. If she was suddenly blocked, that would have meant the loss of a new friend.

Sadly it seems, just like jerks are a part of real life, griefers are a lasting part of Second Life. The best thing one can do is not panic, keep a clear head, and keep from one's heart from being hardened. The infamous zFire Xue of Redzone turned out to have a history of misdeeds in real life as well as Second Life, and ended up paying the price in real life as well. Hopefully this character, and other incurable griefers, will end up sharing his fate.

Bixyl Shuftan

Interview with Greenlantern Excelsior (Hal Jordan)

There's no shortage of occasions on Second Life when someone could use a helping hand. Newcomers at beginning areas often need advice on where to go and what they can do. And of course there's the ever-present problem of griefers. And ignoring them hoping they'll go away doesn't always work. One group with the goal of helping out with both, and more, is the Green Lanterns, led by Greenlantern Excelsior (Hal Jordan).

I recently contacted Greenlantern, and he agreed to an interview. We met at the Green Lantern Headquarters in the Unknown Country sim. He explained, "In the comics, the home of the Green Lantern Corps was the planet Oa. That is already the name of a sim operated by another Green Lantern group, so we wanted to choose a different name."

"So how did you find out about Second Life?" I asked him. "I don't remember where I first heard about Second Life," Greenlantern answered, "But as with everything on the Internet, I asked Mr. Google about it and he showed me a link." When asked how his first days went, he answered, "I wandered aimlessly along a large road and looked at the buildings and signs along the way. There was not a Welcome Area that I remember, and no Mentors to provide help. Finally I found an object called, something like, 'The Big Damn Book of Second Life' that provided some information. I always remember how I felt back then, and that's why I love to go to the Welcome Areas and help new residents." I chuckled a bit at the name.

I then asked, "Where did the idea for the Lanterns come from?" Greenlantern answered, "I joined a Green Lantern group when I first arrived in Second Life in 2006. By 2009 it had changed so that its focus was mostly on fund raising and charity. Many of us who wanted to continue helping people in Second Life were ready to leave. A compassionate friend saw what was happening and created a group called The Green Lanterns in November, 2009, so that those of us who loved the character could continue doing public service in a Green Lantern group. About mid-2010, the founder and its senior leaders had moved on, so the group ownership was given to me."

So what was the purpose of the Green Lanterns in Second Life in a nutshell? Greenlantern answered, "The Green Lanterns can be described in basic terms as a Neighborhood Watch in Second Life. We dress as members of the Green Lantern Corps from the comics, and patrol the grid looking for those in need of help. We assist new residents in making the transition from Real Life into Second Life. We submit Abuse Reports to Linden Lab when griefers attack. We educate landowners about security arrangements. We provide security patrols for Second Life events. We adhere to several standard ethical principles which are described on our blog at http://thegreenlanterns.wordpress.com/about/. We only have three standard rules: 1) No Drama, 2) Have Fun, and 3) Don't be Evil. The group has 105 members, and we are actively recruiting new members who enjoy helping others and removing griefers from the grid through the use of timely and accurate Abuse Reports."

"Recently we have become very active in helping club owners with security," Greenlantern stated. "I think we got started helping club owners early in 2013. The more people I talked to, the more concerned I was about griefers attacking multiple clubs. And I heard rumors that some clubs hired griefers to attack rival clubs, so that was concerning. So I talked to one club owner and offered to help as an officer in their land group, and she added me right away. Now I'm in seven different groups as an officer, and members of The Green Lanterns are being added also." I brought up the "Junkyard Blues" incident last year, and asked him if this and similar attacks were another reason. "Absolutely," Greenlantern answered, "that horrified me, and I was determined that some way we should be able to help in situations like that. The Lab may not have been of help then, but I understand their efforts are ramping up and they have been seen more frequently in the field these days. We are still searching for a way to help multiple clubs and venues without having to join multiple groups, since the LL group limit is still set at 42."

"Was the lab cutting back on security then?" I asked Greenlantern. "I can't speak for Linden Lab and I don't like to bad-mouth them because I don't know what's going on behind the scenes there," he answered, "It did seem that fewer resources were being devoted to Governance than in the past, though. And now it seems that more resources are being added.." "So more recently they're increasing their efforts again?" I asked.  "I believe so," he answered, "We first noticed this back in early November, when it was reported to us that griefers had been attacking people in the Barbarossa sim for several months. We went in and looked at the situation and several of us were griefed as well. So we brought in a large number of peackeepers and wrote Abuse Reports, and about an hour later, Governance7 Linden arrived and the griefers disappeared. Soon afterward, those griefer names could no longer be found in search, and the griefing stopped. After that, we have seen the Governance# Linden (2 through 8) in the sandboxes taking care of griefer objects. The Barbarossa incident is documented in our blog."

"Just why do griefers grief?" I asked him. Greenlantern's answer was, "I wrote about that in the very first post on our blog, and I have come into contact with most of these different griefer types. Here's a canned answer to that: The Exploration of Griefer Play document lists several categories of 'griefer motivations' that may explain many of the reasons that griefers engage in griefing."

Category – Game influenced
Motivations – Anonymity, Boredom, Greed, Protest, Testing, Game premise

Category – Player influenced
Motivations – Spite, Victim vulnerability, Revenge

Category – Griefer influenced
Motivations – Ritualization and group identity, Reputation

Category – Self
Motivations – Bad mood, Wanting to feel powerful, Attention, Enjoyment, Role-playing

" 'Greed' is a new one," Greenlantern added, "some griefers apparently make money by griefing for hire. That is disgusting. It's obscene that someone would get paid to conduct what is essentially a denial of service attack. These venue owners are losing money as a result. It should be referred to law enforcement, in my opinion." Were these incidents on the rise? "I don't have a good feel for whether incidents are going up or down," he answered, "They don't seem to be newsworthy items, so we don't hear a lot about them, or at least I don't."

I then asked a question which I myself had to deal with, "There has been some debate as how griefing incidents should be covered. Some feel they should often be documented to show others, notably the Lab, what's going on. Others feel people should keep quiet about them, as not to give them an audience and too many stories might give Second Life a bad name. Did you have an opinion on this matter?" Greenlantern paused for a moment, then answered, "My opinion has changed on this subject. I used to write numerous blog articles showing how bad and how frequent the griefer attacks were. My thought was that maybe someone whose last name was Linden would see the articles and realize that something needed to be done. But now I think not that the attacks should be hidden, but that they should be discussed in an intelligent way so people can come to reasonable conclusions about what should be done. I even made a couple of videos of griefer attacks, but I think now that there isn't much point to showing a sandbox full of cubes."

Greenlantern added, "If residents can think and talk about how we can all come together and make it harder for griefers to affect people, then that's a positive outcome. And I have some ideas about how that can be done, but they are not yet ready for prime time, so to speak."

Is there such a thing as a reformed griefer? Greenlantern's answer was, "Yes! I know a few of those. They have stopped griefing for several different reasons, including fear of legal action, and gaining enough maturity to leave childhood pursuits behind." *smile*

So besides dealing with griefers, what has the group been doing? Greenlantern answered, "We have been spreading out across the grid. Some of the venue owners we helped have graciously provided space for us to build an outpost on their parcel or sim. It is just another example of how people can exhibit a stunning amount of kindness and generosity to anyone who wants to help them. We are considering rebuilding our parcel too. ... Reduce prim count and increase the number of cool looking gadgets! Actually we have been thinking about it for some time, but today a couple of newer members started talking about it seriously, so I will send out a Notice and we will see what happens."

Have the Lanterns ever had to disclipine a member? Greenlantern's answer was "I can't think of a single occasion when I have had to do that, and no one has ever been ejected from the group. We did have one member who was reported to be griefing in a sandbox. When I talked to him about it and asked him if itwere true, he confirmed it and then resigned. Another member had a sudden change of personality and became very angry with everyone. She went into the same sandbox and attacked a resident using griefer tools. When I talked to her about it, she resigned too. Our rules and code of conduct is very clear about the consequences if anyone is caught griefing, and everyone knows it."

So whom among the Lanterns had distinguished themselves? Greenlantern answered, "There are so many members of this group who have stepped up and done amazing things that I wouldn't want to give a list of names because I might forget someone. A shorter list would be the inactive members. Of the other Lantern groups, the one that stands out in my mind is The Blue Lantern Corps. Several years ago it was led by an amazing guy named Nomad Parx. He energized the group and it was growing and patrolling and creating some impressive equipment. When he left, the group withered away."

"What are the Blue, Red, and other Lantern groups?" I asked Greenlantern. His answer was, "Green Lantern is a comic book character. Members of the Corps wear a power ring that can create anything the wearer can imagine, and the ringbearers can overcome great fear. So the rings are said to draw upon willpower to operate. DC Comics created a story arc called 'The War of Light,' where other Lantern groups were discovered whose rings operated on a different part of the 'emotional spectrum.' The Red Lanterns run on rage, Orange Lanterns run on avarice, Sinestro Corps or Yellow Lanterns run on fear, and the Black Lantern Corps is sustained by death since all of their members are dead. On the good side, the Blue Lanterns run on hope, the Indigo Tribe uses compassion, the Star Sapphires use the violet light of love, and the White Lantern corps uses the power of life itself." Were these groups just about roleplaying I asked him. He answered, "The Blue Lanterns, back in the Nomad Parx era, did the same things we do - they patrolled the grid looking for griefers to report so LL could take care of them. I don't know of any Lantern groups devoted to roleplaying, but I'm not a roleplayer so I could be wrong about that. We haven't done any roleplaying in this group, although if the members want to do that, they can have at it."

Greenlantern described a recent incident, "Last week we got a frantic call from a lady working at the Ocean Casino Hotel. She was being attacked by griefers and her parcel powers weren't working. So several Lanterns responded and we used our parcel powers to eject and ban the griefers. They stayed out on the sidewalk which was the public part of the sim, and we stayed in the parcel and faced them down. It reminded me of a scene from The Magnificent Seven." He handed me a picture of the incident.

It was about then the two of us parted ways. For those interested, one can head to the Green Lantern Headquarters at The Unknown Country (159/147/2023), where one can get information about the Green Lanterns, and an application to join up.

Bixyl Shuftan

Two Pony Fans Speak Out

Recently, Second Life Newser ran a commentary by Zyker Finesmith questioning if there was some trouble between furies and ponies. Among those who read it was Skylark Lefavre, the owner of the Castaway Club. She contacted me, and asked to speak to me in detail on the subject. She and her partner Fyphfoko Yifu later met up with me and Jasmine Dawn Shuftan, and we talked for a while.

Bixyl Shuftan, "To begin with Sky, how long have you been on Second Life?"

Skylark Lefavre, "Since 2007."

Bixyl Shuftan, "So you have a wide range of experiences on the Grid?"

Skylark Lefavre, "Yes. I have been human, furry, vampire, full animal, avian, tiny. You name it I done it." Sky went on to say these days she occasionally wears three avatars in addition to her furry form, "I am currently … a dragon, a furry, a tiny, and a pony. I belong to Raglan Shire and Isle of Wyrms."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "It's an individual thing. I consider myself furry, pony, and consider ponies anthro characters."

Bixyl Shuftan, "Has griefing been an especially hard problem between any group, or has it always been limited to individuals?"

Skylark Lefavre, "All groups experience it. It's only bad if you dunno how to handle, or prevent it, which the tinies and dragons have done. They have about stopped it. Furries and other fandoms are equal in griefing and drama, including humans."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "Same here, and I frequent pony forums and the like, being a lifelong pony fan."

Bixyl Shuftan, "What has your experience with the Ponies been?"

Skylark Lefavre, "No more drama and griefing than furries or other fandoms. … every member is human … no one fandom causes more than others. It's like the political mud slinging commercials. … Things arent' as bad as those hating and fighting make it out to be."

The takedown of the first Pony sim, Bronyville, came up (articles here and here). Of the drama that happened there, "It's a fandom, it's gonna happen," Skylark remarked, "It's new, it's young. It hasn't learned how to deal with it yet. When they learn not to let it happen, and not cause it to happen, then they will rank with (the) tines and dragons (at) Raglan Shire and the Isle of Wyrms. But at the moment, most Bronies are Teen Grid crossovers (from) when it merged with ours. This caused another stereotype: if you have a pony av, you are underage. It's not true."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "Most pony fans are in their 20s and 30s."

Jasmine Dawn Shuftan , "Do any of you remember (Overbrain Unplugged), one of the sim admins, a Brony and one of the primary griefers there?"

Skylark Lefavre, "Not him. I remember the sim, though. I was there, I saw it all happen. I never spoke to Curly and those admin devils again."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "We were friendly with Curly, though."

Skylark Lefavre, "We were. Then factions arose from that little sim event. To be honest, Curly Fride is soon to turn 18. But he was more mature than the admins. Not very much, but still more. I saw his report from him, and the other factions."

Jasmine brought up an incident when everyone in Bronyvile was made weightless, "and slung to the far corner of the sim." Skylark replied, "Yes, I know. And I know how to reverse gravity." "Who did you think did that?" "It's an estate tool, and it's a griefer scripted weapon. Someone at (name withheld) showed me how anyone can make a griever tool, and change the creator/owner to you."

"The Bronvyville incident started with a supposed hacking of Curly's account, and the theft of his soon to be released 600 $L pony."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "Basically, if its computer related, it can be fiddled, usually relatively easily."

Skylark Lefavre, "Someone hacked into ti to make it so Curly was no longer a sim admin, then stole his pony, released it to the public. The admins were upset with Curly, they wanted to cut him out. The griefer group you spoke of caused the entire mess. They were responsible. They gave Bronys a bad reputation. And this was their plan all along."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "… 'My Little Pony' is more popular then Elvis right now, so of course its going to be a big griefing target."

Skylark Lefavre, "There is a collation on the 'net to do away with all things Brony. I dunno the specifics, but there is a group of Brony haters on the 'net and on SL causing the drama. They pose as ponies, but they are not. They get in so deep, the mess they cause never goes away. The fall of Bronyville was a planned event. They infiltrate new fandoms and take them down from the inside by destroying their integrity and reputation."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "If you're a terrorist, are you going to attack a tiny obscure village, or something like a major train station?"

Skylark Lefavre, "They tried to take down as many as they could. Bixyl, when that event happened, Brony population actually decreased for a while, at least for a few months."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "Exactly, and that's why popular things like Pony and Twilight are so often targeted."

Skylark Lefavre, "Popular or (not), anything different is a target. … It's not the furries and the bronies who are at war its the griefers who make them think they are. They cause the drama. They cause the trolling. They cause the griefing. Neither side is at war unless they believe the griefers."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "Ponies and furries are no more at war then fans of (Classic) Star Trek and fans of 'The Next Generation.' "

Skylark Lefavre, "Ever hear of the Hatfield's and the McCoys? They fought and killed each other. They fought so long they forgot why. The fought because their parents told them lies, mangled truths. Hate needs justification. To justify you need to lie and lie well."

A friend nearby, Kryxia Silverfall, had been listening, and wondered, "With this griefing going around among the fandoms namely bronies and furies, if one allows the issue to see light in a way it is giving the griefers acceptance in that they are acknowledged and tend to crave that."

Skylark Lefavre, "That's true, but they make those they pretend to be look that way too, like attention whores."

Kryxia Silverfall, "Yes, there are tools out there that may cause what is now known as griefing tools. But then again, it could be and probably is was someone was probably trying to push the limits of say the sims, which the griefers seem to have been able to get their hands on (the tool) and turn it to be a weapon as well. To propagate their form of fun by causing said misery to two groups of people."

Skylark Lefavre, "Quantum Labs was a victim of this. Their tools were ripped off and used as griefer weapons. Now people think users of Quantum Labs huds are griefers."

Kryxia Silverfall, "Basically the griefers thrive on causing misery, for it might make them feel better about themselves by doing what they do. It is all human nature of what is behind the monitor and what they want to do."

Skylark Lefavre, "To put it bluntly, in every fandom there are bad apples to give the group a bad name. It never goes away. Its how you handle it and prevent it that matters."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "You can't control what others like. The founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses supposedly liked 'Care Bears.' "

Skylark Lefavre, "Seems people hated dragons, so they constantly griefed the Isle of Wyrms sandbox, which was public. Now its only usable if you are in group and their griefing is near 0% now. Tinies exists, but they don't push others to be tines, and they have a strict police system to prevent people from joining if they even seem griefer like."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "Dragons do get a bad press because of how they are portrayed in movies."

Skylark Lefavre, "Ponies and furries need a better faster and quieter way to prevent and handle things like grieving. Then I know the so-called war between furries and bronies will die. But as it stands, the griever groups not only exist in Second Life, but they exist in other (places), Facebook, the Internet, or real-life. All anyone can do is handle the ones here. Take the griefers out of the equation, there will be peace again."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "Personally, that video I linked too pretty much represents all I know about this apparent 'war.' "

Skylark Lefavre, "I know more than you think (Fyphfoko). I went around asking questions, gathering evidence, at the fall of Bronyville. We were in that group less than a year and drama hit big."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "I lost two small parcels, which pissed me off. Although I do like the new Ponyland."

Jasmine Dawn Shuftan, "I'm saying one thing then I am walking away from this. The day we live in a world untouched by hate is the day this world will be reborn."

Bixyl Shuftan, "Xymbers linked a Krypton Radio article from the JLU, was it accurate?"

Skylark Lefavre, "What article?

Bixyl Shuftan, "http://kryptonradio.com/2011/07/21/woodbury-banned-a-third-time-sl-bronies-take-a-hit/ "

Skylark took a few moments to read, then, "Bix, this article is correct. It could not be better put, and I agree. The Bronies are not a griefing group. They were started by a griefer, but (he) was thankfully removed. There are no more grievers in the Bronies. But sadly the griefer group was involved with the removal of that Bronyville sim."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "I'm pretty sure there are griefers, but they don't run things anymore."

Skylark Lefavre, "And the copybot device he leaked is null and uneffective as new SL server code has made nearly all copybot devices unusable and to my knowledge the place to get them is neither advertised or sold. Nearly all, but not all."

There was a little discussion of technical details of copybot and other tools, then, Skylark continued, "It's sad a new fandom's rep was tarnished by the group, but thanks to the preserverance and hard work of people and Lindens its gonna get harder and harder for griefers to get the upper hand. Drama will always exist, harassment, hate groups, but they can't do what they used to be able to do. Bronies will emerge out of the pit they have fallen in, and become accepted as much as any other fandom, if not more."

"And Bix, you need to add, you do not have to be one thing. You can be a brony, a furry, a human, or even a tiny. In this world, you can be a lot of things at the same time. It's not a 'this or nothing' game, not like it's made out to be. I am human, I am dragon, I am tiny, I am furry, I am mythological, I am four legged, I am many things. I chose to be all, not just one."

"And also, I don't take sides. I don't let people choose who I can see or be friends with. No one should. I'm gonna be all and whatever I want to be."

Bixyl Shuftan, "Do you feel the ponies have been treated fairly in SL media as a whole?"

Skylark Lefavre, " I feel Ponies have been the uncle no one wants to be near, except by a group of some. (I'm) not saying they are hated by everyone, just saying they are not the most favorite. And so, they aren't as accepted as the sum of SL sims. But they are becoming accepted more and more as furries are on human sims. It's gonna take time to be treated fairly. You have to remember they had a past thats was laid in controversy."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "You can be treated unfairly no matter who you are, though."

Skylark Lefavre, "What fandom though did not have skeletons in their closet? As long as we keep the griefers and trolls out, Bronies will get treated fairly."

The talk then turned to a group that Skylark felt had an excellent reputation, "Tinies are so random they make me laugh a lot. You should hear the chatter on Raglan Shire group chat (grin). They are soooo silly. Tinies are widely accepted because they *are* happy, they *are* silly, they *are* productive, and give to SL as a whole."

Bixyl Shuftan, "And lots of jokes about waffles?"

Skylark Lefavre, "Oh yes (smile). Them and their waffles (grin). With the Isle of Wyrms, though, it's cookies."

Fyphfoko Yifu, "With ponies it's muffins."

Skylark Lefavre, "In my inventory, I have a lot of waffle and cookie builds from IoW and Raglan (grin). My Seawolf Ancient dragon has a cookie the size of a human, but round."

"Bix, I saw griefers and trouble come, and go for good at Ranglan and IoW. It will happen for ponies and furies. It's gonna take time. (smile) I have faith."

Bixyl Shuftan, "Any comments on this article on the tines: http://slnewserextra.blogspot.com/2011/12/have-yourself-tiny-little-christmas.html ?"

Skylark Lefavre, "Oh Em Eff Gee! (laughter) Bix! That article!! That *IS* them! (big grin) Something strange happens when I put on a tiny av. I become like them. Others have told me this too. It's infectious."

"You have to give ponies and tines credit, for a new fandom they rigorously enforce rules to keep their avatars from becoming walking porn, like with bits. They keep them fully PG. And ponies like clothes as much as tines. Even hatches have clothes."

Bixyl Shuftan, "Yes, I've heard those rules are strictly enforced at the Brony sims."

Skylark Lefavre, "It's a good rule, Bix. It proves they are worth giving a chance to. They are pure hearted, not perverts and griefers. The better sides of people come out in PG form, the cuter and more adorable side, the beloved and funny side." Sky paused, then chuckled when she read the latest in Raglan chat, "Hee hee, another Tiny raid on a sim. Those are a laugh (grin). … Store owners can ask a group of tines to come to their store. By doing so, this increases traffic to the place. I was in a few back when … A lot of my friends were tines before they were full-time furies."

Skylark, Fyphfoko, Jasmine, and I continued to talk for a while, but this was the end of the topic. Skylark would later make some tweaks to her pony avatar, and although usually goes about in her furry form, on occasion trots about in her pink pony.

*Addition* Later on, Skylark contacted me saying when they talked about the weightless incident at the Bronyvile sim, she meant to say "admin tool" rather than "estate tool." "And I should have added I do not know how to make the tool. ... I saw someone make the script, but I do not know how to make it myself."

Bixyl Shuftan